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Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:50 pm


Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:56 am

Moderator: You know, I was going to let this comment stand but I'm past the point where I'm going to tolerate rudeness and name-calling. If you want to object to the article or the concepts around it, fine, but you will be civil, or you will get off this website.

Fair enough. I own a board too and I know how hard it is to keep a lid on things.

I expected a bad word filter would edit what I wrote in my second post.

What I see now is rather than remove a single word you have deleted one post and removed everything I have written from another. Your board, your rules, but I'll call you out for censoring a contrary opinion. Not at all what I would have done over at my place. I would have done this:

<Admin edit>
< uncivil word removed>

<Opinions need to be civil at all times or membership on this board may be terminated>

With no other editing.

My point is this: If you treat your members with respect, as above, they will return it many times over. OTOH when you treat people as you have here -- censoring their opinions -- you earn no respect at all.
With all due respect, if you were the first person to comment on the article I may have done as you suggested, but you weren't. It may seem strange, but I don't actually have to sit here and tolerate a seemingly endless stream of first-time posters being rude to me, my writers or other commenters here. You censored yourself by being needlessly aggressive which resulted in moderation.

You are more than welcome to put your original point back in if you want, sans rudeness. If I was really trying to censor anybody, this thread would look significantly different.
"Determining the appropriate level of influence in somebody else's war is never a simple matter."
- Special Circumstances


Genma Saotome
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:57 pm

Re: <t>Is 2020 the year the tide turned in the struggle for diversity in wargames?</t>

Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 pm

Funny that i don't have a copy of my original post..

Constructive criticism: I've done 17 years of admin work on another board and it's allowed me to understand that heavy handed admin editing is counter productive. Had you inserted into my first post some sort of admin comment along the lines of "The tone of this post is too argumentative; Members should exercise greater consideration to avoid the tone and/or language used here" and then left the post as is then everyone who comes along later on gets to see the original text as well as your admonition and understand what has crossed your line and why. That becomes a lesson learned.

Instead you erased everything. Nobody knows why, nobody has the example of what was wrong. Nobody learns anything. And you and I have no basis for further discussion of our respective opinions about whatever it was you regarded as unacceptable.

Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:18 am

Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:35 am

I've read all the comments here and I've noticed that those who accuse others of 'insecurity' or 'threatened by the inclusion of everyone' haven't actually read the comments or the point that others were trying to make.
Many of those who said or agreed that this article is a solution to a (non-existent) problem also said they're more than happy to play with anyone, because, let's be honest, there aren't many players. They got tired of playing alone or with the same people.
I barely played any physical wargames due to costs and time constraints. It's an expensive hobby to start with and it's also very time consuming. Building, painting, setting up the game...
I usually play PC wargames, but even there, I'm very light and picky with the games I'm playing, because of the time constraints.
Playing Command and trying War In The East, with some Steel Division 2 from time to time and other Paradox Games - Hearts of Iron 4, Victoria 2, etc.
I never felt excluded from something I don't invest that much time in and every time I went on a forum, I found mostly mature conversations, not a toxic environment, as the author of this article claims. Try a Call of Duty forum, for instance, to compare 'toxicity levels' between community.
I am a white male, in my late 20s. I tried to convince my girlfriends to play with me Warhammer 40k or Axis&Allies, even Risk, but to no avail. The level of interest was very low, despite my overwhelming excitement to the idea of playing the game with them. Girls/women young enough to spark some interest in a game... nothing happened. They just weren't interested.
I know one girl who plays boardgames and easy '"wargames' with her boyfriend, and I tried to join them once. She didn't felt excluded or marginalised and she didn't even bother asking herself these questions.
Like I haven't until today, when I read this very biased, factless and 'opiniated' article.
But, the issue lies also with the others, as I can see many of you accusing other members of the community for not being inclusive, yet you don't even bother reading their articles/arguments. You're part of the problem, as you're accusing without even trying to understand the other side.

Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:04 am

Re: <t>Is 2020 the year the tide turned in the struggle for diversity in wargames?</t>

Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:24 pm

I can't see how ANYONE could possibly object to welcoming more diverse voices to wargaming, regardless of their race, sex, gender, etc. I recently played a GMT COIN game with a transgendered person of color. Her insights into the struggles she faced gave our gaming group new insights we as older white men had never considered. For example, when I mentioned my respect for the accomplishments the transgendered movement has made over the last few years, she corrected me by stating that transgendered people are not members of a "movement" but a "community." Seeing her as a member of an abstract "movement" rather than a living community of gender diverse people made me feel even more guilt for the white privilege I had already benefitted from my entire life.

Again, we MUST bring more diversity into gaming. We simple have no other choice, and I commend the wargamer website for bringing this issue to the forefront.

Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 8:00 am

Re: <t>Is 2020 the year the tide turned in the struggle for diversity in wargames?</t>

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:33 pm

What does playing a game, rolling dice (or a RNG), or the normal discussion\banter have to do with diversity?

Seems like the modern, shallow attempt to muck-rake than to get more people playing games. Jeez.....

The Grade-school 'I know what I am, but what are you' games have grown adolescent for us remaining adults in the room...


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